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Varanim slips into Cerin's study with a furtive look and a bottle of booze in one hand, closing the door and leaning against it with a 'whew' look on her face before noticing that Cerin is actually present. "Hey, we should have an important talk about something for a few minutes."

Cerin raised an eyebrow at her. He passed no comment on the nature of her entrance, and it seems, already has a seat ready for her. "What did you have in mind, or had you not gotten that far?"

Cerin raised an eyebrow at her. He passed no comment on the nature of her entrance, and it seems, already has a seat ready for her. "What did you have in mind, or had you not gotten that far?"

Varanim "Hm. What DO you talk about, when you're not being invisible?" Varanim sprawls into the seat and takes a sip, eyeing Cerin speculatively.

Cerin "Problems of theoretical essence channelling and the nature of essence in general, the state of the Sunlands, a spot of gardening and painting," he says, and then pauses. "I would actually like to get your opinion on something, as well."

Varanim "Oh, do. I have spare opinions on most subjects."

Cerin smiled wryly. "Somehow that does not surprise me. I'm fairly certain you'll have more than one on the subject of souls, though."

Varanim "That's a good one," Varamim says, leaning back. "One of the most atrociously overloaded words in any language I know. Are you asking what I think they are?"

Cerin "That will do for starters, we can get into the more technical stuff later."

Varanim "Hm. I'm not actually convinced that they exist; it's a very sloppy concept. There's a visible motive mechanism for ghosts--these things termed 'passions' and 'fetters' by people more inclined to that poetic crap--but who knows? That might just be an accidental fossilization of Essence at the moment of death."

Cerin "I am reasonably certain they do exist. I have several sitting on the shelf over there, as best as I can determine."

Varanim looks a little startled, then interested. "Lemme see."

Cerin stands and walks over to the shelf next to his trophy shelf. He picks up a large golden chest, and carries over, setting it down on the table before opening the box. Within are a pair of opalescant spheres, bobbing in a liquid that doesn't quite look like water. "From the soulfont, in Letheon."

Varanim will touch one lightly with both hands, unless Cerin moves to indicate it's a bad idea. "So that's what they look like when I'm done with them."

Cerin makes no such gesture. After all, he had picked them up. "Yes. Or at least I assume so."

Varanim "It's a terminology problem, though," she says as she hefts one thoughtfully. "Is the soul the set of Essence structures I can rip out and send sloshing around in my shadow? So far that's just mote manipulation, although I'm starting to check the long-term effects of that separation. Or is it memories, emotions...?"

Varanim "People use the phrase 'losing your soul' like it means something, when without a common definition it's just an empty collection of syllables."

Cerin "Well, the definition I was working with assumes that the set of essence structures and the memory or are the same thing."

Cerin "It's perhaps worth noting that in many of the situations one talks about losing ones soul, the spiritual entity which has taken up residence displaces one or both of the souls a human has."

Varanim "Ah, that's the way you use the phrase. Lots of people use it in a much more nebulous and emotional sense, for example to complain about a personality change in a person they used to admire. If you're sticking to the material that passes on to Lethe for rebirth, that's pretty discussable. What do you plan to do with them?" She sets the soul back in the liquid and taps the box questioningly.

Cerin "I want to make something new from them."

Varanim "I don't think I'm the right person to tell you how to make a baby with Zahara, if that's where this is going."

Cerin "I would be willing to trust, in that case, that the processes already setup would continue to work as they have done for millenia. Something new, which does not yet have a cycle of rebirth, or even birth, yet."

Varanim "You want to hijack a couple of people-blobs to make a new kind of people?" Varanim looks interested in spite of herself.

Cerin "Actually, I would prefer to make the souls whole-cloth, hence this discussion."

Varanim "Huh. Well, what are your organizing principles? Do you want them to carry emotions, memories, complicated Essence structures possibly tangled with the first two, or just a basic motive spark? How enduring are they meant to be, and where do they go when expelled?"

Varanim She takes a modest drink from her bottle, sinking into her chair a bit as she sinks her teeth into the problem."

Cerin "The former, rather than the latter," he says in respect to the complexity. "I would like them to be native essence channellers, which requires a single soul, as well as a certain amount of other complexity. They will need to be sentient, for example. What happens to them after is something which will require some thought. Ideally, they can be introduced into some cycle of rebirth."

Varanim "Why do you want to do it?"

Cerin "Would you accept 'to see if I can?' as an answer?"

Varanim "Doesn't really matter if I do, but it's polite of you to check. If it would be useful, I could probably dig up some passably coherent discussion on passions, fetters, po separation, and like that."

Cerin "I'm not sure. Do Hundredfold have ghosts? Not that I will be making hundredfold, but they are a single-souled entity."

Varanim "Yeah, though not often--it can happen if they're short suitable bodies for some reason, or if... other things interfere. The Ija might be a good place to start if you're interested, since I know they've been mucking around making their own brand of spectres."

Cerin "Those might be more relevent here, due to the lack of seperation."

Cerin "Since as I understand it, fetters are what the so called 'higher soul' uses in place of emotions, whilst the low soul lacks reason. I would like the souls to possess both memory and reason without need for external effects."

Varanim "So that if you could pop a soul out of one body and into another, it'd be as good as the same person? Neat project. The next time we get to Tara Zhan keep, we should talk to the Ija spectre there together, see what it has to say about its parents."

Cerin "Hmmm. That is perhaps the case I want, yes," he says, this apparently making him think fairly deeply. "Yes, that sounds right. Ah, so that is where you encountered the Ija? Or have you met them before, too."

Varanim shakes her head. "None personally, just their spectre kids." Her expression suggests that she is in strong pursuit of the subject, but Varanim isn't the sort to promise results she can't deliver yet.

Varanim "But I think the halls are safe now," she adds, pushing up to her feet. "Talk more later?"

Cerin He looked through the manses corridors, "As long as you don't go back via the camelia garden, at least. But yes, I would like to talk to you later."

Varanim_ Halfway to the door, Varanim pauses to give him a funny look at the warning, then smirks in silent salute and heads out.

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